RAMONES: MARKY RAMONE & THE INTRUDERS -LIVE AND INTERVIEW AT SATYRICON, PORTLAND, OREGON, 12-16-1998

When the Ramones called it quits in 1996, drummer Marky Ramone wasted no time in forming his own band, the Intruders. With one album to their name and a new LP, entitled The Answer To Your Problems?, slated for release on July 20--not to mention their tireless touring--the Intruders are continuing in the straight-ahead punk rock tradition pioneered by the Ramones. But the Intruders are just the latest addition to Marky's formidable rock'n'roll resume. While he is best known for his 15 years and 12 albums with the Ramones, Marky's career actually stretches back more than two decades.

In the early '70s, Marky (born Marc Bell in 1956) recorded two albums with Dust, a hard rock band consisting of Richie Wise, who later produced and played guitar for Kiss, and bassist Kenny Aronsen, who later played with Billy Idol, Joan Jett, and Bob Dylan. After brief stints with blues guitarists Johnny Shines and David Bromberg, Marky played for a short time with Wayne County. He then joined Richard Hell's Voidoids and recorded the seminal punk album "Blank Generation" with them in 1977. The following year, he was recruited by the Ramones to replace original drummer Tommy Ramone, who wanted to focus on producing rather than playing music. Marky fit right into the Ramone family, laying down the beat on classics such as "I Wanna Be Sedated," "Chinese Rocks," "The KKK Took My Baby Away," and "Psycho Therapy." In 1983, he left the band due to problems with alcohol, but he cleaned up, and returned in 1987 to continue playing with the Ramones until the end of their career.

These days, most of the Ramones are playing in their own separate bands, but so far, the Intruders are the truest to the Ramones' raw original sound. Sure, there are a few differences--the Intruders have a finger-picking bassist, and you might even hear a guitar solo now and then. But for now, the Intruders are carrying the flame that the demise of the Ramones almost extinguished. After a few personnel changes, the lineup has solidified into a trio featuring Marky on drums and occasional vocals, rapid-fire bassist/vocalist Johnny Pisano, and 21-year-old guitarist/vocalist Ben Trokan. Constantly on the road for the past three years, the Intruders have been around the world, yet until their recent tour with Sloppy Seconds, they had never played in the Northwest. I had the luck to see them two nights in a row--first at the Satyricon in Portland, where this interview was conducted, and again at John Henry's in Eugene, where I took the pictures. [This interview also appears in Hit List magazine, issue #4 (August/September, 1999)]

GLENN SHIRES:To start off, it's just you, Marky Ramone, but who else is in the band?

MARKY RAMONE: Ben Trokan and Johnny "Fingers" Pisano. They're both from New York, and they both sing and they both write. They're really into old punk, new punk... you know, new punk is old punk. You saw them; they're real professional. That's what I wanted. I like playing with a three-piece band; it's tighter. I had another another guitar player in the band once and it wasn't as cohesive as this. So they're able to keep up with me, and that's important.

GLENN SHIRES:How did the Intruders first get together?

MARKY RAMONE: After Lollapalooza in '96, when the Ramones did the last tour of America and we decided to break up--or to retire. We didn't have to break up, we just wanted to retire. I wanted to keep playing 'cause I liked it. I mean, they're older than I am and I just felt that I still have the energy. It's fun touring and meeting new fans and playing with other bands. I figured I'd write some songs and put an album together, and that's what I did. So while I was still in the Ramones, I wrote songs already for the [Intruders'] first album. I waited until the Ramones broke up to do anything. I thought it was very disrespectful for Joey and C.J. to do something separately while they were still in the Ramones, because there was nothing better than the Ramones while you were in the Ramones, so why do something else? So that kind of got me and Johnny Ramone pissed off, but nothing came of it... I waited until the Ramones broke up.

GLENN SHIRES:Well, that's admirable. Now, didn't Skinny Bones used to be in the band?

MARKY RAMONE: Skinny Bones was very good, but he's a junkie. I had to throw him out. I gave him a salary, and every time I gave him a salary, it would be spent in a day or two and he'd call me up to ask for more money. He was shooting it into his veins. We were playing at a club in New York, and me and Iggy Pop were hanging out, and Skinny Bones was there nodding out. Me and Iggy looked at each other, and we knew what this fuckin' guy was about. I walked him around the block and his girlfriend got him a big cup of coffee. He was able to do the show, and then I just kicked him in the ass and that was it... That ended it.

GLENN SHIRES:Yeah, 'cause the two of you collaborated on stuff while you were still in the Ramones, right?

MARKY RAMONE: Yeah, we did. I thought Skinny Bones was very good, but... A lot of my friends were junkies and they died--Johnny Thunders, Jerry Nolan, Sid dabbled in heroin... and they're all dead. So I don't need a guy in my band to die on me, and this band has been together for a year and a half, and I love it.

GLENN SHIRES:How long did it take to record your first album? When I was looking at the CD, I saw that it was recorded at different times and different places.

MARKY RAMONE: I had to record it around the Ramones' tours because I wanted it out at a certain time. It was in three different studios, so that's why some songs sound a little different than others. But it's very raw, and that's what I wanted, because I thought Adios Amigos, the last Ramones album, was very overproduced. It's a good album, but too overproduced. That's why I wanted the Intruders album to be more dirty.

GLENN SHIRES:It looks like you and Skinny Bones played most of the instruments yourselves on the first album...

MARKY RAMONE: Yeah, we did.

GLENN SHIRES:Did you have the band together at that point?

MARKY RAMONE: No, there was no band. It was just me, Skinny Bones, and Mark Neuman from Sheer Terror. We did all the stuff, but we didn't tour as that band. The second album is going to be just us three [Marky Ramone, Johnny Pisano, and Ben Trokan]. We already have the songs.

GLENN SHIRES:It sounded like you had a lot of new stuff tonight.

MARKY RAMONE: Yeah, new stuff. I'm shopping the second album around to different labels. Our first record label sucked. They didn't put out any ads, they didn't support it, and it was the wrong move I made. I learned my lesson.

GLENN SHIRES:Yeah, I had to order it because they didn't have it in stores here.

MARKY RAMONE: Yeah, I learned my lesson. Now I have the tape at Honest Don's, Epitaph, you know... Hellcat, Nitro, Rounder... So we'll see what happens. I'm not going to jump on anything, just wait and choose the right thing, and that's it. The first album did good considering that there was nothing done to push it. We're talking worldwide, not just America. But sometimes you make mistakes and learn, you know.

GLENN SHIRES:Are there any particular labels that you'd really like to be on right now?

MARKY RAMONE: Well, obviously Epitaph or Nitro would be good. That's the style of label that would hopefully accept us. We could have been on Radioactive, the Ramones' label, but it's too close to the Ramones. I didn't want that relation, because if the Ramones do anything in the future, they could shelve my stuff and just concentrate on the Ramones. So that could be detrimental to what I'm doing.

GLENN SHIRES:And I heard that you played with members of Rancid for a cover of "I'm Against It" [an old Ramones tune]. Is that going to be on your new album?

MARKY RAMONE: No, it's on a compilation that's been out for a year called Punk Rock Jukebox, on Blackout. It's been out already for a year. I'm good friends with Lars and Tim and Matt. They wanted to do the song, so we did it. We became friends, and they're big Ramones fans. We usually do some shows with Rancid during the year. We just did one in Washington with them, which was really good.

GLENN SHIRES:You also played with them on the Warped Tour last summer. How was that?

MARKY RAMONE: That was great, yeah that was great. 115 to 120 degree weather in Texas and Florida. It was with Rancid, it was with NOFX, and Bad Religion. It was a lot of fun; a lot of kids, a lot of good vibes from Ramones fans who liked the Intruders--kids who can get in 'cause it's not a bar, like 15-to-18 year olds wearing Ramones shirts and liking this stuff. It was great. It's good to play big places and it's good to play small places. It's good to do both. For the Warped Tour, we were playing in front of seven or eight thousand people. Here tonight, it was 100; Sunday night... I liked it. But you gotta do both. You have to be able to play in front of a lot of people, too.

GLENN SHIRES:That reminds me of another question. What do you think of all-ages shows as opposed to bar shows?

MARKY RAMONE: Great, they're great.

GLENN SHIRES:...Because it seems like maybe more people in the typical "bar audience" have heard of you and would come to see you play. MARKY RAMONE: Well, at the end, Ramones fans were younger than ever. I mean, in Lollapalooza, you had parents who liked the Ramones coming in with their kids who like the Ramones, so it was a second generation. So all-ages shows are good too because they can get in to our shows. Obviously they see something in the Ramones that they can relate to. I don't know what it is, and I'm not going to question it, but I guess the Ramones are bigger than ever now because there's so many Ramones imitations like the Queers, Screeching Weasel, and... you know, the other band... I forgot their name... Boris The Sprinkler. There's a lot of Ramones-influenced bands, like the Beatnik Termites, the Donnas... There's a real legacy that the Ramones left, and that's why a lot of younger kids are digging it.

GLENN SHIRES:Yeah, it seems to me that a lot of kids get into the Ramones because of those bands. They go through those bands to find you.

MARKY RAMONE: Yeah, it's great.

GLENN SHIRES:Most of the bands you just listed have covered entire Ramones albums...

MARKY RAMONE: [laughing]: I know.

GLENN SHIRES:...And I read a quote in an ad which led me to believe you aren't too happy about that.

MARKY RAMONE: I said that?

GLENN SHIRES:It was in an ad in MaximumRocknRoll for a Boris The Sprinkler album, for their cover of End Of The Century [a Ramones album from 1980]. I think you were quoted as saying, "What is the point?"

MARKY RAMONE: I said that?

GLENN SHIRES:Well, that's what the ad said.

MARKY RAMONE: Really? And it said Marky Ramone?

GLENN SHIRES:Yeah.

MARKY RAMONE: And what did it say after that?

GLENN SHIRES:It just said, "Re-released on CD," and it had your quote in small print underneath it.

MARKY RAMONE: And who else... What other quotes were there?

GLENN SHIRES:That was it.

MARKY RAMONE: Oh, was it an old issue?

GLENN SHIRES:Not too old. Just a few months ago, I think.

MARKY RAMONE: Yeah, what is the point?

GLENN SHIRES:Well, that's what I was hoping you would answer.

MARKY RAMONE: I know, what is the point? I mean, it's not going to be as good as the Ramones. Why invest all your time and money and do something that's not going to be as good as the original when you could just do your own thing; create something new on your own instead of delving into something that you can't perfect, you know what I mean?

GLENN SHIRES:Do you find it flattering, though, that all those bands covered Ramones albums?

MARKY RAMONE: Yeah, it's great. I mean, it helps keep the Ramones' legacy alive. So do you know Ben Weasel?

GLENN SHIRES:No, no, I don't know him. I know who he is, but I've never met him.

MARKY RAMONE: Is he the one who quoted me, or was it Boris The Sprinkler?

GLENN SHIRES:Oh, your quote was underneath the ad for Boris The Sprinkler's cover of End Of The Century [The ad was actually done by Skull Duggery Records, the label that released the album--see their ad in issue #180 of MaximumRocknRoll].

MARKY RAMONE: Alright, do you know them? Because we did a show together and they were real nice [see Rev Norb's column in MRR #184].

GLENN SHIRES:No, I've never met them either.

MARKY RAMONE: Do you think that's funny or do you think it's lying?

GLENN SHIRES:I honestly don't know. I figured it was probably a real quote because I don't know why they would bother to make it up.

MARKY RAMONE: Right, but how does it sound to you?

GLENN SHIRES:I interpreted it as them saying, "OK, we covered a Ramones album and Marky Ramone doesn't like it, but we don't care."

MARKY RAMONE: But I never said I didn't like it.

GLENN SHIRES:Right, but that's how they projected your quote in the ad.

MARKY RAMONE: Well, I heard it, but I don't like it, because it's so artificial. It's too forced. The great Ramones album that was copied was done by the Beatnik Termites, called Pleasant Dreams.

GLENN SHIRES:Is that one out yet?

MARKY RAMONE: It's going to come out. That one I like. It was real good. But you see, when I saw the Boris The Sprinkler album, I wanted to know who the fat guy was on the cover with the glasses because Joey got fat towards the end, and I knew it was supposed to be an immitation of him. So I went up to the fat guy in Boris The Sprinkler and said, "Were you supposed to be Joey," and he goes, "Yeah," so it confirmed my belief. Then I listened to the album, and I give it about a 6 out of 10. They seem to be nice guys, but you know, I guess if that's my quote, that's how I felt. What is the point if you can get the real thing?

GLENN SHIRES:I'd have to agree with you on that account. I've only heard two of these Ramones cover albums, but the only one to impress me so far was the Parasites version of It's Alive.

MARKY RAMONE: I mean [still referring to Boris The Sprinkler], there's no way they could get a Phil Spector production because they're not Phil Spector, and I'm sure they don't know anybody who's as good as him. But they're a cute band. The singer has the schtick and everything.

GLENN SHIRES:Where all have the Intruders toured, because you've been together for a couple years, and I think this is the first time you've played in the northwest.

MARKY RAMONE: Two years. South America, Europe twice, America three times, about 40 shows with the Misfits, about 10-15 shows with Rancid, the Warped Tour... Canada twice already. In South America, we played with the Sex Pistols, we played the two shows with them. Now we're going to finish this tour and go to Canada again.

GLENN SHIRES:I was reading the book Ramones: An American Band. It's the biography that came out a few years ago, and it has a list of every show the Ramones played up until 1992. I noticed you guys played in Portland and Eugene a few times throughout the '70s and '80s. Do you have any memories of those shows, like where you played or anything that happened?

MARKY RAMONE: Me and Dee Dee at that time were getting very high, so there's a lot of memory lapse, but I remember most of the shows were the same--crazy, great, fun, just nuttiness... a lot of slam dancing, and that's how it was. To pinpoint one particular show is pretty hard to do.

GLENN SHIRES:Yeah, and it was a long time ago too. I have to confess I haven't seen the new video you put out, which I believe is called Ramones Around The World?

MARKY RAMONE: You gotta see that, it's on Rhino.

GLENN SHIRES:Yeah, tell me what it's about.

MARKY RAMONE: I took a camera around from '87 to '96 of just the Ramones, with my high-8 camera. I was the only Ramone with a camera, and I just taped everything: songs, intimate stuff, backstage stuff, stuff that isn't on We're Outta Here.

GLENN SHIRES:Do you still keep in touch with the other Ramones?

MARKY RAMONE: Yeah, I'm friends with Johnny and Dee Dee. I have no idea what Joey is up to--I heard he was very sick, and Tommy I speak to... And C.J... I think he's in a biker metal band. They do cover songs or something. They're called Los Geesanos, or Los Gusanos.

GLENN SHIRES:Like you said earlier, a lot of the Ramones are doing their own thing right now. Do you know if--

MARKY RAMONE: Yeah, but are you hearing anything by them that's really great?

GLENN SHIRES:I've heard Los Gusanos.

MARKY RAMONE: And what do you think of it?

GLENN SHIRES:It's definitely not the Ramones.

MARKY RAMONE: It's horrible, it's bad.

GLENN SHIRES:Well, it's completely different. I mean... I can appreciate it as something different--

MARKY RAMONE: I can't. I think it's really like '80s metal, but done badly. I mean, that's just my opinion. But Dee Dee's stuff is great, the Zonked album that he put out is great.

GLENN SHIRES:I haven't heard that yet.

MARKY RAMONE: Yeah, it's real good. Dee Dee's solo stuff is great.

GLENN SHIRES:I've heard that it's a bit slower than the Ramones.

MARKY RAMONE: Yeah, it's slower, but it's reflective. It's really good.

GLENN SHIRES:You played on his album too, right?

MARKY RAMONE: Yeah, but I don't say that because I played on it. I just love Dee Dee's writing. He's fuckin' great. He can write a song in 20 minutes and it can become a "Pet Sematary," you know what I mean?

GLENN SHIRES:Do you think there's any chance for Johnny Ramone to come out of retirement and do something new?

MARKY RAMONE: Ah, well... there's talk of doing a movie this summer called Gabba Gabba Hey, and it's not definite, but it might happen. It's going to be a major movie. We're looking to have Rancid in it, Misfits, Social Distortion, Green Day, uh... maybe Joan Jett, Bad Religion... It's a movie but it will have actors in it; maybe Rosanna Arquette, Vincent Gallo... And at the end we do two new Ramones songs, and Dee Dee's gonna be in the band.

GLENN SHIRES:Wow... [I'm nearly speechless]

MARKY RAMONE: It's not definite, but we're talking about it.

GLENN SHIRES:This next question is something I've been curious about for awhile. When the Ramones met at Tower Records in New York last year to sign copies of We're Outta Here, I believe it was billed as the first time that all the former Ramones appeared together in public.

MARKY RAMONE: Right.

GLENN SHIRES:So I've been wondering why Richie Ramone [former drummer] was absent.

MARKY RAMONE: No one's heard from him for a decade. The last I heard, he was a golf caddy. So that was it. Nobody heard from him. But Tommy was there, and Dee Dee was there, and Joey and Johnny.

GLENN SHIRES:This leads to another question, which is sort of related. The album Halfway to Sanity [1987] is the only one without any songwriting credits--

MARKY RAMONE: Really, on Halfway To Sanity? I didn't notice that.

GLENN SHIRES:I know it was the last album Richie played on, and he left the band before the tour.

MARKY RAMONE: Yeah, I didn't play on that album.

GLENN SHIRES:So you don't know if there's any reason for the lack of songwriting credits on the album sleeve? I wondered if maybe Richie wrote a lot of the songs and they didn't want to acknowledge him after he quit.

MARKY RAMONE: I have no idea. I toured for that album because at that point I came back into the band, and then I did the "Pet Sematary" single and "Merry Christmas (I Don't Want To Fight Tonight)," and then we did the Brain Drain album, so I have no idea what was going on before that, especially with Halfway to Sanity.

GLENN SHIRES:OK, that's all I have for questions. Do you have an address to give or anything else you'd like to say?

MARKY RAMONE: Well, we have a website, an Intruders website. Intruders- dot-net-slash-com, whatever it is. And the Intruders/Ramones-dot-com, whatever it is. [Actually, it's www.intruders.net. Get the Rhino video, Around The World. It's 70 minutes long, it's all my footage, and it's really good. [At this point, the tape momentarilly cuts out, but Marky begins talking about Joey Ramone's illness.] ...He's going through chemotherapy and I hope that everything is well. Dee Dee and I have a separate band called the Ramainz, and occasionally we play in New York. The Ramainz album is coming out soon [Entitled Live in NYC, it was released June 15 by GB Music]. It's a DAT recording from the board; real raunchy, a great show with 400 kids going nuts in the club. It's Dee Dee singing Ramones songs that he wrote. Johnny Ramone... who knows? He might come out of retirement, he might not, but there's going to be a lot more Ramones video footage from my library, like a part 2, 3, and 4. The first one's out on Rhino, and if all goes well, I'll do some more. I also want to start playing on other peoples' albums, just doing one song; play some punk stuff and have fun.

GLENN SHIRES:Alright, that should wrap it up, and I'd like to thank you. This has been a great interview and a real honor to meet you. We're actually from Eugene, where you're playing tomorrow night, so we'll be there for that show, too.

MARKY RAMONE: Yeah, I just want to say that I'm flattered that all these bands do Ramones cover albums. It keeps the Ramones freak-flag waving high, and I wish them all luck. I really like what they do, and you know, keep up the good work. And Sloppy Seconds are great, too.